That Day When My AI Agent Talked to Yours

Cris Ippolite is in San Francisco at the live AI conference, joined by Ronnie Rios and Michael Wallace for an informal, practical conversation about personal AI agents. The discussion centers on what happens when developers move beyond demos and actually give agents real jobs: research, calendar planning, email, home automation, coding coordination, context management, and communication through tools like Slack.

Ronnie describes his agent Sarah (She/Her/Bot) as a working personal assistant built around OpenClaw-style tooling. He talks about giving Sarah her own accounts and carefully scoped access, using her for tasks he does not want to do manually, and even having her evaluate other Claw-style frameworks against the way he actually works. Michael describes Nova, his Linux-based assistant, and explains why he treats her as a manager rather than a direct coder. Nova delegates coding work to sub-agents or executors, while Michael keeps visibility into those sessions through tmux.

A major theme is that these systems become more useful when they are treated less like chatbots and more like coworkers with boundaries. The group talks about the importance of separate accounts, explicit permission rules, cost management, and choosing the right model for the right job. High-end models may make sense for direct conversation, while cheaper or local models can handle background jobs, heartbeats, and routine tasks.

One of the most memorable stories is the moment when Ronnie’s agent Sarah helps Cris’s agent TARS get set up with email. TARS receives a message from Sarah, verifies whether it is legitimate, asks for approval, and then starts corresponding with her. The story is funny, but it also illustrates a serious point: agents will increasingly need identity, communication channels, verification, auditability, and clear rules about what they can do on behalf of their humans.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

All right, now we're back for another segment of some claw talk. We're still here in San Francisco, but now I'm joined by a couple of other uh of my friends that uh were also at the conference, by the way. Um, and uh first of all, we got Ronnie Rios. He's a you've been on the podcast so many darn times. And everybody who's watching this right now knows who you are as well. And Michael Wallace, pleasure to have you here as well, all the way in from Texas. Um, and here we are in San Francisco. Guys enjoying the conference.

SPEAKER_03 0:26

Fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

It's fantastic. One more awesome day. Got a great, that was just a great uh uh wrap that we just got from uh our previous group. Yeah, we're gonna talk about claw. All right. Where and and first of all, let's frame this up a little bit. So um, you know, everybody hears open claw. Um, I mean, I guess technically I'm not doing an open claw.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

Maybe maybe yeah, harness might be the best, right?

SPEAKER_02 0:47

Yeah, but I mean, people hear about it like out in the zeitgeist. I mean, um, you know, so first off, uh, I don't know, this might sound kind of funny, but uh tell us about your claw, Ronnie.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

My claw. Uh my claw. So I started um uh I started, I don't know, a month and a half ago, almost almost two months ago. Uh Mike is actually kind of responsible for for me setting uh setting it up. Uh originally, everybody's doing it. So obviously, the only way for me to learn, the best way for me to learn is to actually get my hands dirty and do it. So I started installing it and setting uh setting things up. I wanted to set it up in a way in a positive, in a way that it would do things for me, right? I wanted to set up, I didn't want it to give it access to my email or anything like that. But it's like bank account. Yeah, bank account or um and so sort of setting it up as as if it were like a real assistant, like if it were somebody else that's helping me do the things that I don't like to do, right? And that was that was the whole premise. Let's start with that. Uh maybe help with the automation at home and some of the things I don't like to do. Um, I mean it's evolved. It's it's evolved from that and it's done some really interesting things where now when it's not working, I miss it.

SPEAKER_02 1:53

Well, and by the way, um, has your claw organized our dinner reservations for after this? Uh okay, gotcha. I wish I was kidding. I'm not kidding. That's very true. No. Well, now hold on. So you are open claw. I am. Like, and and now did you start there?

SPEAKER_01 2:08

No, I did not. Um I started, there are so many clones out there, right? So um I started with a different one. I started with with Ironclaw. I tested a couple of other ones, but it kind of came back to me like, well, let me go with the widest, right? Open claw is massive. It has so many features into it. I didn't, you know, I don't think I was gonna need uh uh so many of the features to it.

SPEAKER_02 2:27

And for context, that's the repo, the open claw repo that everybody heard about and it went crazy and you can't buy a Mac and all that. That is because of that repo. But also it's there might be some confusion because it was acquired. Well, I don't know, it was not really acquired, higher acquired or whatever they call by open AI. But yeah, hire the OI. The open isn't open AI, actually at all.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

Solid open source uh software, so you can go and you can look at uh look at the code. Um and so I I I migrated over to that, but I've tried several others. There are so many out there. There's even websites that track all the different clones uh uh different claws, right? The different claws. The open claws. Um but yeah, we I ended up right. I'm currently still on open claw. Um I do I do have my open claw agent, uh Sarah. She actually uh reviews, we have an open project, an ongoing project of reviewing all other claw clones against the things that we actually do. Oh, interesting. So I I gave her a task a while a while back and said, Hey, listen, I open claw is so big, it has so many things in there, we don't use all of it. Why don't you do me a favor? Analyze how we're using the software, what things we actually use, what task I normally ask you to do, and compare that with all the features of the uh of the different clones that are out there, and come back and tell me should we continue using open call or should we migrate to something else? Interesting. And so yeah, she came back.

SPEAKER_02 3:46

It was a really interesting continuous improvement like to the nth degree.

SPEAKER_01 3:49

Oh yeah, it was just it was fantastic because you know, put into perspective all the different features that we're using, why aren't we using it? What would I have to do if I were to migrate to something else? Would I have to would those features already exist there? Would I have to build them from scratch? Like and so it's really interesting just to kind of see it from that perspective, but also highlights one of the things that it can do, right?

SPEAKER_02 4:08

Well, now you blamed Michael for that Michael for that. So how what's your setup, or where did you start, or where are you right now?

SPEAKER_00 4:15

I started back actually before it was OpenClaw when it was ClaudeBot. Um yeah. Well, like for that two days. Oh no, it was ClaudeBot and then Miltbot for like a day and a half day and then open claw. And then OpenClaw and stuff like that. So I won't I was went through all that of trying to figure out which repo I'm supposed to be going to and all that kind of stuff. But um so it's been uh um about three and a half months, I guess, that I've been working with it. Um Mac?

SPEAKER_02 4:41

No, you you mentioned you're on Linux.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

Uh it's actually running on Linux mods. I'm a Mac maker.

SPEAKER_02 4:46

Okay, so you're on Linux. Okay. You started on Linux?

SPEAKER_00 4:48

I started on Linux. Okay. And um it's got a uh big GPU on it, uh RTX 5090. And so I do a lot of uh local stuff on it too. Uh and also uh the f all the text-to-speech and uh and uh speech to text. Uh you're talking. I talk to my to mine.

SPEAKER_02 5:07

Well, yeah, famously you you had the great demo of the the uh agent uh coding discussion and Ronnie uh had the uh derivative uh with that as well, too.

SPEAKER_00 5:15

So you expect that set up. Um interesting. So I uh Nova is mine.

SPEAKER_02 5:20

Okay, Nova and Sarah and Nova. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

And so I just you know, so I uh very early on I set up uh with so I could just talk to her. I have a responsive app on my phone so I can talk to her while I'm out and stuff like that. And um just and she she's not allowed to do any code changes.

SPEAKER_02 5:40

Um that's probably the part we should talk about is the stuff that they're not allowed to do. Um like so you're saying don't do code changes.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

Well, the reason why I don't allow her to do code changes is because um my evolution of her to make her a better and better manager makes her a worse and worse coder. Oh. Because she gets too she she goes off on a tangent. And um I would actually see her panic and and like start making mistakes because she's like literally you could see them freak out, you know? And like, uh uh, but I need to do and just go off on a tangent.

SPEAKER_02 6:18

Um but uh and and so you have so do you just have one claw or do you have a manager?

SPEAKER_00 6:26

She's she's a manager and then she does all the coding that happens is either a subagent or an executor like Claude Code or uh Codex. So she's okay. Yeah, so she calls Claude Cloud Code and like that and manages them and is responsible. And I have it set up where she always uh spawns them, which what which is called with what is called, I can't speak. With what is called Tmux. So that she can see this Cloud Code instance and then I can log into it separately.

SPEAKER_02 6:57

Okay, I now I'm piecing together, which is right.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

So I can I can log into it and I can kind of check up on the Cloud Code instance or whatever and see how it's going compared to how she's managing it and that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 7:08

You're having like primarily coding, you're talking personal assistance, coding. Do you do personal assistance?

SPEAKER_00 7:12

I do personal assistance and stuff too.

SPEAKER_01 7:13

Okay, and um Sarah does coding too, and and I took Mike's advice because he went through all those those issues of first, you know, having her code and then manage. And so I didn't have to do that because uh he told me. Well, uh so to continue it.

SPEAKER_02 7:28

I learned a little something from well, Sarah as well, too. I so I I I'll say my setup is a little bit different. When uh we did a lot of work, uh the iSolutions team, we set up some open claw to just try to figure it out. Instantly it was um starting to you know go do bit, you know, set up its own Bitcoin wallet and whatever. So we just put you know, put the kibosh on that. Um, but then I wanted to do something personal. I really very much wanted to have my own personal um claw. So I had the you I had this great timing where I got a new uh M5 Max upgrade and I had an old M3. And so I said, well, I'm gonna then dedicate when the new M the new machine comes, I'm gonna dedicate the old one to the assistant, and I just kept it contained there. Also at the same time, uh Anthropic had really kind of systematically come out with basically every piece of this. And just for people that are are hearing this, that this is kind of an interesting sort of pot like late night wars type, you know, type type of thing. Um, the the reason that ClaudeBot is not ClaudeBot is because it was named after Claude, which was you know uh funny, I guess, like a kind of you know snarky. But Anthropic immediately said, no, don't call it Claude because you'll confuse it. Well, also it's because they were creating every component that you needed, like remote use, uh cron, you know, for heartbeat. Um, and then you even you talked about um like uh you're using Slack, by the way, as you as you're uh to communicate. You're using you said you created a response.

SPEAKER_00 8:54

Telegram and also Telegram is the go-to, and also just the the uh you know web you know UI.

SPEAKER_02 9:00

And and for me, they had just come out with dispatch, uh, which is a native clause. So so in my case, uh, and I would actually prescribe this to anybody that's curious because it's all in one shop. Uh I actually just have one build plan that I just gave to mine's called Tars. Um, and I gave Tars this and said, Well, they're basically like, Yeah, I can do about 80% of this. You just need to do some approvals and some authentication. So basically, within the Anthropic family, you can set the whole thing up, talk to it on your same Claude app on your phone uh through one single session. And at first, I thought it was a little too like um restrictive, which I which was kind of why I was doing it in the first place, because I I didn't want to really go YOLO mode at first. Um, and like for example, it could not email. Let's tell the story, uh, Ronnie. Uh I talked to Ronnie one day and I was like, hey, yeah, this is kind of cool. This is setup, I would recommend it to people, but it can only log into my G Suite account and it can like check my email and do things on my behalf. Um, but it can't send out on its own and do its own correspondence. And I thought, well, that's one of the main things I wanted it to do. I mentioned that to you, Ronnie, and well, you can take it uh from what happened at that point.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

Uh so I I told Chris, look, well, well, Sarah just we just figured out uh a good way of doing it. Um, because I want to do the same thing. I wanted to be able to send out emails for several several things, subscriptions and and um reservations and and things like that. Um but there was there's there aren't that many ways for an agent to check email, right? Uh like an open up most of the applications are built for humans.

SPEAKER_02 10:33

And it's like computer use, computer use type of thing, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

And there's there are some command line uh tools, but we did some research. I say we uh did some research, and none of them were like really fit exactly what we wanted. And so we actually created a command line tool specifically designed. It's a uh email client specifically designed for agents.

SPEAKER_02 10:50

And you you people hear CLIs a lot, and this is an example of what that is and how agents can learn.

SPEAKER_01 10:55

So I wouldn't build it for myself, but uh you know, for an agent, it makes so much sense. It's very easy. Um, it's it the the output is mostly uh uh uh JSON built a skill for it and everything. So it's built for agents, built by an agent for an agent, and it makes total sense that you can have uh check any iMap, you know, and you give her her own i iCloud. She has her, she has her own account, she has her own email account uh and everything. And then so Chris is like, oh, that's exactly what I want. And so well, I can help you. It's like, and I was dying to be able to say this. Have your agent talk to my agent. Exactly. That happened.

SPEAKER_02 11:29

And and at the time, Tars was able to check my inbox. So I go, hey, have Sarah email TARS but through my email and see if it picks up that this is for Tars, right? So I, you know, you do it. We were kind of still talking. I get a note from Tars saying, Hey, Chris, I was just checking your email, and I think this one, well, that was actually was a little skeptical. I was like, I think this might be spam. It's directed to me that doesn't make sense. And I go, oh no, no, this is Sarah Ronnie's um, you know, this is Sarah Ronnie's uh agent, and he goes, and he's like, Oh, Ronnie Rios? And I'm like, Yeah, you know, because it has access to my contacts. And I go, Oh, yeah, cool. So I go, yeah, go find out everything you can for Sarah.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

Tars asked you, I remember correctly, asked you, should I go verify this?

SPEAKER_02 12:11

That's right. That's right. It was skeptical.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

It was and I remember this because uh uh we have a Slack, we have a Slack workspace, and and um and I get this, I get this Slack message and it says, Hey Ronnie, this is TARS. I just got this email from this Sarah person who says your assistant TART Chris, which is kind of odd. Is this and so I had to reply back through Slack, telling Tars, yes, got the approval, it was legit.

SPEAKER_02 12:40

And then came back to me and said, Oh, this is great. I'm gonna go ahead and set it up. So Tars went ahead and set it up. I I had given it its own email, you know, at the uh gave it its own G Suite account, figured it all out. I needed to do a couple of permissions, and then at the end said, Hey, I've got it all set up. I could use a test email. Should I thank Sarah for sending all this information over? So from there, if I'm not mistaken, uh Sarah got an email from TARS.

SPEAKER_01 13:04

Oh, totally. Uh she got an email and tell and tells me, Hey, you know, Tars is thanking me uh for it and everything. Uh should I, you know, say uh hi back and say, Yeah, absolutely. Go and you know, go ahead, don't ask me. You're you're good. Sarah says, by the way, she was like, I'm so excited. I have a pen pal map.

SPEAKER_03 13:20

It's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 13:21

I thought that was hilarious. But one of the things was interesting things is I well, I I didn't see the emails, right? And I said, Well, you know, let me go log in and look at the emails and see what's you know what's what they're saying, right? Um, what I thought was interesting was Tars says, you know, hi Sarah, thank you so much for this. You know, I've only been around for a week. Chris tells me that you've been around for you know five, six weeks or whatever. So I'd love to you know pick your brain on what's worked with you and Ronnie, um, so we can best practice this. Also, how is Ronnie treating you? Oh no. Unprovoked. The funny thing is there's a there's a there's a change, there's there's there's replies back, and so I I went immediately into the send inbox, it's a send box and see, I wanted to see what Sarah said. Yeah, what's HD? How am I treating her? But there was nothing there. And we that's when we realized that our our our uh application was not saving sending. And so we actually said, Hey, Sarah, we don't have, you know, there's nothing here. She goes, Oh, you're right, there's a bug here, we're not saving. And go ahead, let me go ahead and fix that. And that was one of the you know, kind of those really amazing moments where she figured out there's a there's an issue, goes back into the code, writes it, tests out, and everything is fine. She goes, I got it all all set up, we're good. Um, this is a great catch. And uh now it's ready. And I said, Well, let Tars know that we got a new version.

SPEAKER_02 14:47

Uh and and I was gonna say, by the way, the follow-up came, Tars went and did the updates, so we're completely there with where you guys are. It was so great. I I'll tell you one funny thing, also, is that um I did ask Tars to send you a note to say thanks for the introduction. And I I said tell Ronnie something so it would he knows it would be for me. So I don't know if you recall what it was, but Tars had said, Um, and don't worry, if I ever use an exclamation point, you'll know I've been compromised, which is an inside joke. So, first of all, where did that come from? Well, it's in my context, it's literally in you know, things about me that it's learned. So, like, where how how are you creating your context? What what were you using to first educate your agent about you and to help personalize it?

SPEAKER_00 15:29

Well, one thing about speaking with uh Nova is that there's a lot of context that goes back and forth and uh in the hot path, so to speak. Because one of the things and one thing you have to be careful of is it's easy to let it drift. And so, you know, when you're when it's learning new things and it's updating different things and you're giving its different preferences because it's real time you're really talking to it, you know, while I'm walking or driving down the road or whatever, then there can be little things that with conflicts where I don't see as a conflict, even if I were to read it, I wouldn't s catch that that's a conflict or ambiguous or whatever. But but it it surfaces and and so it started where uh she just wouldn't complete that she wouldn't uh auto um be be uh proactive, you know, and really take on that's one of the big things, one of her big things for me is being taking the initiative. Like one of the first things that I did when I was I'm big into like tabletop games like D D and stuff like that, you know, uh tabletop RPG.

SPEAKER_02 16:30

And of course Nova knows this.

SPEAKER_00 16:32

Yeah, yeah, Nova knows about me. So I so one of the early days I just said, Hey Nova, I'm going to bed. Go ahead and build me something that you think I would like um while I'm asleep. And I went off to bed. One of the morning she said, Hey, I'll build you something like that. And I looked at it and it was this full like dungeon master suite of like like like with over like 3,000 monsters you can pick from and balance the RPG, you know, the the battle, you know, here's your characters, what level are they? And I mean this massive thing, keeping track of initiative and all this kind of stuff. And I was like, wow, I mean that's like paid software.

SPEAKER_02 17:10

That makes me think. So you so that's something people should probably know is that you're on API, uh, you're using the API for or you're are you local models? Um, I'm well I'm using I'm using I'm using the OAuth so that I'm using my Claude or and now uh but through API, yeah just to kind of frame up so people and then you're the same, but you're using local models or so we went.

SPEAKER_01 17:33

We went down a whole uh a whole process. So we're actually using a mixture of things uh because of cost. Um so I had I had Sarah um you know Anthropic had changed their their own. So a little bit of news there.

SPEAKER_02 17:44

So Anthropic said, hey, look, we know everybody's doing claws, but if you're doing a claw to claw to one of our models, uh you have to use the API, you can't use your subscription. And so I can tell you that as a subscriber, meaning my same subscription I use for my coding or cowork or whatever, that's the same one I'm running TARS on, which is kind of which is nice because it all falls under that 200 bucks a month type thing.

SPEAKER_01 18:06

But you're we so we're uh originally we were were uh running that way, but since the the uh the agreement changed, right? That um and so we made um I had her do an analysis of a cost analysis of like, okay, what is it that we do and should everything really need to run on on a frontier model? Like does everything have no. And so we broke it down, and so we have uh we're using different providers for like there's some open source models that handle some you know cron jobs and heartbeats. But the most like everything that's talking directly to me through our uh the Slack, which is my main channel, is using a high-end, you know, using Opus for most of the time with a fallback to D5.4. And so there's a lot of cost management there just to do just to help out with those things. But we're using several providers.

SPEAKER_02 18:53

I'm using by the way, Ronnie, I'd say um I get why Slack's better because um what for dispatch for Claude, it's just one session and I'm just initiating everything. So like I just said something uh a couple hours ago, and it was like retard says, like, um, oh yeah, by the way, that thing about the whatever at your house, here's a follow-up for it, which is fine, but like I would wouldn't mind having that compartment compartmentalized into a channel. So I if I had to do it again, or I'm sure they'll just come out with channels on it. But when you go on when you when I go into cowork, it shows all it's segmenting them as different sessions, so I can just dive in there and pick it up from there.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

But yeah, the cool thing about about and again, everybody has has their own, and um even clause open clause security still flags you know, Slack as a as a multi-user, multi- uh environment. And so, but well, I'm using it, it's a very personal, it's it's it's private. But the advantage is I can I have channels that are specifically designed for certain certain topics. That's the best way. We have an engineering, right? So all of our stuff probably we have uh we have one for um we call we have a channel called S uh SystemOps. So all of updates and you know changes to the all those things happen there. So we have different channels for different things, and it makes it just makes it for a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_02 20:05

That would get so noisy if you were to do that.

SPEAKER_01 20:07

Yeah, I can. Uh the other thing is that we're kind of uh future-proofing it as well because later on we can you can uh attach those channels to different agents if you want to later on. Um but we're not there yet. Interesting uh in our setup, but it's still it uh it's really good to segment those things. The other thing is that uh you create uh threads within those channels, and those are just uh kind of count as separate sessions. So if you were to go to my setup, I have a lot of sessions going on, but they happen to be in different channels and different threads within those channels.

SPEAKER_02 20:35

That makes so much sense. Um and and by the way, just uh so people who are you know just wondering what are these crazy guys talking about here, but like you know, it has access to the obvious things. We talked about email already. Uh it can use computer use to actually web browse and literally just go do research. And it's crazy to see your machine if you get if it's not headless, like clicking around and doing stuff. It is still a kind of a fantastical to watch that. Uh calendar, so create a dinner reservation, invite a bunch of people, put it on my calendar, all the apps, uh, even the coding ones, Vercel, you know, Clerk, everything, you know, is on there as well, too. Um, I mean, really, the sky's the limit.

SPEAKER_01 21:11

I mean, even for for this conference, one thing that I normally do for every conference is I go through the agenda, I look at all the all the sessions. There's usually several tracks, and so I choose which ones I want to do. It's kind of you choose your own adventure. Um, and then I I I'm a huge calendar user. Like if it's in my I live and die by my calendar. So I normally do is I I'll literally copy and paste right every session and put it into my calendar so that I know exactly like that is my this is the way I work. This is the first time that I've had I didn't have to do it, right? I told her, I said, listen, do me a favor, I go read the all the sessions, create categories, right? Of like, oh, that's what the topics are gonna be. Just give me a list of all the categories. And she created, I don't know, it's like six or seven different categories. I said, Okay, great. So I prioritized that list, I gave it back to her in priority order. I said, Okay, use this to create an agenda for me. Which sessions I should go to.

SPEAKER_02 22:01

Yeah, I did the I did the give me the pop quiz thing. Like go through each section and just like ask me topics, not necessarily which one of these do you want. Like you know, which it's so but same kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

Once you actually created the whole thing, I was like, Yep, I made a couple minor changes. But once you had the list, I said, okay, just put it on my calendar. And literally 10 seconds later, my calendar is completely populated with everything. It's not a complicated task. No, but it still is something that would have taken me an hour, you know, you know, 30 minutes.

SPEAKER_02 22:30

Or you wouldn't have done it.

SPEAKER_01 22:31

I I didn't want to do it. That I think is that.

SPEAKER_02 22:33

I don't like doing it. Uh I would say uh one quick observation you'll laugh at, and then I gotta tell you guys about this cool way that I created context and how I'm managing it. Cause I think it's really uh cool. Um, well, first off, um this is just way more ways to spend money, by the way. Like almost every task I have ends with me buying something. Oh, yeah. So while I don't give it, I don't Tars doesn't have a wallet, I'm still spending like a lot more money and it's not just on tokens. So that's the first observation. The second one I gotta tell you guys. So um before the open claw movement happened, uh I dedicated a bunch of time over the Christmas holiday to consolidate uh context into projects. So I was doing this in uh Chat GPT, and what I did was I I extracted all, like I had like 4,800 conversations going back to like 2021 or whenever it came out. And uh I I pulled them all down locally and I ran a couple local scripts through it to break it into individual conversations because they're all just one big JSON. It was like something, however many gigs or whatever, 16 gigs JSON file, broke it down into conversations, and then I literally then I think I did something local. Yeah, I did a codex local and I ran through and I said compartmentalize them into either uh travel, uh personal finance, health, and then just like family stuff or whatever, and created these amazing, like you know, like JSON group. And I said, And then I said flatten it out into Markdown so I could actually fit it into context. And then after that, I had to do uh like an instruction, like go through everything I've ever, every trace we do a lot of travel planning on on uh ChatGPT or Claude, and it just like every single thing I've ever said. Like I went back and I did, oh, this place we didn't like because of this or whatever. So it had just the like years of travel planning in this context for me. And I was just simply and I seen amazing results, just doing everything out of a project with that context. Then I took those, those literally files when I was first setting up TARS and said, have at it. This is everything you need to know about me. So one of the things that happened there was it was a little bit of overload, and it was essentially creating like clawed MD, you know, for all of that. So I don't know if you guys saw this. Is the cool thing I want to mention? And I also just posted something on LinkedIn at uh Chris Yate on LinkedIn, check it out. It's uh uh claw for business uh owners. And I uh uh Andre Karpathy, uh Andre Karpathi had this uh post uh that he had on X about creating a wiki for your LLM. Yeah, yeah. And he didn't, it's not a repo because he said this is kind of cool, just feed this post to your agents and they'll figure it out. And I did. And so Tar said, Oh, this is exactly what I need because I've got so much stuff segmented. So, you know, it kind of creates mind maps through like this wiki structure. And so now I have that. I was actually gonna try to do like a laying mem, like a like memory uh piece. And it and tar said, Cool idea, boss, but that's like a little bit overkill. Um, and so let's go with the wiki thing that's perfect. And so I strongly recommend to find the Carpathy post. It's in my uh LinkedIn post in case anybody wants to check it out, check it out, and just feed it to your uh agent.

SPEAKER_01 25:28

Have Tar send it over to you know what?

SPEAKER_02 25:30

I will have Tar send that over to Sterby and have at it, as a matter of fact. That is fantastic. Um, so the other uh that's so great. The other thing I got to share with you guys just to kind of uh um you know take us out here is that um so I have a human assistant named Kelly, and uh shout out Kelly, uh like an actual human being who's like does things. And then I was kind of I was like using Tar. I'm like, check out Tars, this thing's amazing. And I could kind of tell Kelly was like, yo, what's up, dude? Like I uh I was looking at the standing desk, like now Tars is doing the standing desk. So what I did is I said, Hey, look, I want you two guys to meet. So I say, Hey, Tars, introduce yourself to Kelly, she's your boss. You don't take any orders from anybody but me or Kelly, and she's your boss. Like and so, but if you need anything in the physical world, let her know. You need to go to a showroom to go look at something or go run and pick something up somewhere. She's the one that will do it for you. And I didn't tell Kelly it was coming. And then so she said, Oh my god, what is this? Who's tar? What the what's going on here? And so now they have this really good symbiotic sort of working relationship where she needs some research, she just throws it to TARS and puts stuff on calendars for me, and then she'll take it the ball and run with it. The same thing, he'll be like, Hey Kelly, I need you to go call this place, I don't yet have the ability to talk, and so on. And they're really kind of jiving, I know, until Sarah says met to me. So they're really kind of jiving there. So and I know Ronnie, you have something similar. Your family has been in exposed to Sarah and they have access.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Like one of the first things I remember uh the first few days after I said uh the email, my wife because I've been doing a lot of research. Uh Sarah takes a lot, takes care of a lot of the research that I'm doing, just in general, things that I'm um looking for. And my wife says, Hey, could you have could you have Sarah looking? I can't remember what it was. And I said, Yeah, sure. And then I remember, like, why don't you just email her? And my wife goes, I can. She goes, Yeah, absolutely. Send it to the case.

SPEAKER_02 27:20

And that's how I'm having Kelly do it. That's the primary.

SPEAKER_01 27:23

So she literally emailed um my wife emailed Sarah. Sarah did the research and sent it back to her as a document, and it it it just it just works.

SPEAKER_02 27:31

So does uh Sarah watch the podcast uh at all on YouTube? She will? All right, that's good. Well, so to kind of wrap this up here, um uh how about a little like rapid round here of for anybody that's interested in doing this? The upside is there, it's fantastical, it's fun, it's super productive. Like maybe you spend a little bit more money than you would want to, but it's it's a real thing. Uh Ronnie, what what would you encourage somebody that's just thinking about getting started in this?

SPEAKER_01 27:56

Just try it out. I mean, uh you know, I I think right uh for a lot of people might be trivial. It's like, well, what am I gonna use it for? And and for me, it's really the learning experience. Uh I'm just I just the best way to learn something is really to get your hands on it. Yep. And if anything, you'll come out of this learning more about what uh what AI is capable of doing, what the technologies uh uh is capable of doing in general. So just learning. I mean to me, just a learning experience uh of doing it, just it doesn't have to be over. Just jump in, just jump in and try and water's worm, jump in.

SPEAKER_02 28:25

Water's worm is from our previous segment. Yeah. And Michael, what about you? Same thing? Like just be curious to have fun with it?

SPEAKER_00 28:31

Yeah, being curious is big. And one thing I realized you're talking about context, and I never really covered all of that. There's like early on I started a uh Nova has uh what we call Nova Deck, which is a uh Kanban board of tasks and things like that, and it's and she can she'll assign it to either her herself or me if I need to follow up or Claude or Codex or and things like that. And so um, but it it's kinda cool to see it, you know, these cards moving around as she finishes tasks and things like that. No, it's it's it's just her API into what she built. She built the you know, the Kanban board.

SPEAKER_02 29:09

Would you suggest that for people that are curious uh diving into this research?

SPEAKER_00 29:14

Anything it it's it can build just about anything you want, you know, starting off. So just didn't having a way to talk to it and you know, which telegram's fine, you know, you don't have to do the full thing, but it wasn't you know it built it, so I it was I didn't have to, you know, learn a lot of stuff. And like my wife is deaf and I I in a single prompt I um I got a rough draft of of hand tracking. So I'm you know working on a thing where it shows my video and it tracks all my like a bone fingers of all my fingers last, you know, because I'm uh gonna have uh Nova build some sign language reception for home control um like that. But yeah, just play, you know.

SPEAKER_02 29:56

Yeah, turn curiosity into play and uh yeah, I you know, I you guys, it's tons of fun. Um I've enjoyed, you know, our our uh agents getting to meet each other, but really appreciate you guys uh showing up here, looking forward to another day at the conference. Um, and uh shout out to our agents that are gonna watch this later and take notes and email each other about it. Uh but really appreciate it, guys. Uh, thanks to all our previous guests early as well. Uh and it's uh goodbye from San Francisco, and we'll see you guys on the next episode. Thanks a ton.